A kind of Midwestern Gothic, it features an ensemble cast of unsavory characters, and its grisly events are spread over a couple decades. In the finished film Pollock himself reads the narration, largely directly from the book. In fact, they drew from an esteemed classic. But I was very nervous to ask him. Finally I went out to Knockemstiff, and I asked him. In the writing phase, he and Antonio had to think about the character of the narrator. How much does the narrator know?
Is brony something everyone on the Internet should know? I've never heard the word and have no clue what it means. A while back I came across this , which seems to cover the phenomenon in depth. It's fine to try but it often feels like we and the way we speak are the joke. Not the jokes themselves.
Look how Scottish I am, dude! I mean, "lads! We get that in Ireland too. It's gotten so bad that I've actually seen Irish people online use "fook" sincerely online. When you're speaking like an American doing a shite attempt at an Irish accent, you're beyond saving. So my only issue is I don't know if that's just taking the piss out of northern English accents or are they the only people on the planet who genuinely say "fook".
That's cos she and Leigh Francis are from Leeds, where you do hear it. I liked the sub early on, when it felt like aabody wis just enjoying wir unique brand o humour and most folk seemed genuinely interested in a kind o cultural exchange. There's still good posts on there fae time tae time, but maistly it veers intae that uncomfortable "get a load of these weirdos" territory. I do whenever I see English bashing cos im a sad English person hahaha. Almost always the most vocal anti English aren't even Scots.
Americans that have ancestry hear about the 'animosity' and then take it way too far. Most of us like each other ffs. Was his username GroundskeeperWillie? Because it looks like that's who has written that nonsense.
Is there something that can be done? I'm actually a professional translator with Scots as one of my working languages. I grew up speaking the Doric and Easter South dialects, and began learning to read and write Scots properly from fourteen, and did a lot of study in my bachelors and masters on minority language policy in Scotland. I don't really use wikipedia so I had no idea about this. This fucking kills me. We've got to report this surely. Surely something can be done.
Fuck, I'd happily commit my spare time to fixing as much of this as I can, where do a fucking start? Honestly, we'd be better off deleting everything this brony bellend has done and starting over. This person has spent probably several hours a day for several years putting their own nonsense on wikipedia - the idea that editors should just spend thousands of hours of their own time fixing it all is ridiculous.
Delete it all. Is one decent starting place to learn how editing works. You can also just directly contact the other admin, MJL; they're the one who started the AMA here, and would probably happily directly work with you.
Wikipedia always needs more experts, even if just to provide a sanity check to existing content! There's also a Discord and IRC server if you wanted to real-time chat with other editors about issues you run into. Hey OP! Not Scottish or active on the Scots Wiki, but I am active on English wiki and is there any sort of action could I possibly take in order to help you all out? The user seems to be an admin, so they were given rights at some point, but I feel like we have to be able to petition their account be revoked and the wiki basically purged.
Open a RfC on meta. Like, at some point someone has said to them that an aw means also, but failed to contextualise its use. The absolute number one way to spot a foreigner trying to speak Scots. Obviously in this case they're vastly more obvious than just that due to the sheer volume of absolute shite in there. Indeed, it comes at the end of pretty much anything.
As though the English would be "[sentence], also. It's commonly used as "and all", an aw, without meaning also. For example "I made a fry up an aw the troops loved it". I bet this is like a person trying to translate the English word "hard" to other languages, not realising that it has so many meanings, you can't just translate it to one word and stick to that one. I'm not even scottish or even a native english speaker, so i've no idea how wrong these articles are, but i entirely agree with you here.
Wikipedia content is used to train AI, so at this scale they're hurting automated translators too. All native speaker of Scots should try to fix his bullshit as soon as they can, and if he reverts even a single fix he should be reported and banned.
How far have we fallen??? Would it be possible to get him banned? Seems unlikely as he's the main mod, but it would certainly be justified. You can try to open a RfC on meta. Anyone know a news agency that would take this? I'd be drooling over this if I were a journalist. I'm a journalist with an interest in linguistics, I'll write about it though I am also an American who doesn't know Scots.
I had an English teacher from the US in secondary school. She was well intentioned and a reasonable teacher, but she was a bit of an "Outlander" if you know what I mean. I don't have a strong accent and I never spoke a lot of Scots, but I remember once we were talking and I said something like "I got it fae the shop. She broke into a big smile and said in a super American accent "Oh, I love the way you people talk, frae!
How delightful. I felt really insulted by this still not sure why, exactly and I shouted back at her, saying didn't even say "frae" but "fae" which is how it was said round there. She looked really crushed, and apologised, like I'd stomped on her dreams, and I regretted my outburst.
Obviously not the same as the situation here - she wasn't teaching us Scots or anything - but it seems relevant. I'm sure her feelings were hurt, but anyone who says something like "the way you people do X" needs a bit of a reality check.
The main problem is that everyone just goes to Wikipedia to see things so if Wikipedia is wrong everyone learns the wrong thing. Oh wow, that thread will be why he's deleted his twitter account and removed info about himself on wikipedia this morning. Thinking aloud Could we make a disclaimer page on wikipedia explaining all of this?
As editing all of these mistakes would take forever as a quick fix til we can fix it? I'm genuinely outraged by the sheer arrogance of this person doing this.
This is actually a attack on the culture whether intentional or not and a sizable damage that needs to be undone and should not be tolerated. Honestly, I don't mind if you revert all of my edits, delete my articles, and ban me from the wiki for good.
I've already found out that my "contributions" have angered countless people, and to me that's all the devastation I can be given, after years of my thinking I was doing good and yes, obsessively editing. I was only a year-old kid when I started, and sometimes when you start something young, you can't see that the habit you've developed is unhealthy and unhelpful as you get older.
I don't care about defending myself, I only want to stop being harassed on my social medias and to stop my other friends who have nothing to do with the wiki from being harassed as well. Whether peace can be achieved by scowiki being kept like it is or extensively reformed to wipe my influence from it makes no difference to me now that I know that I've done no good anyway.
This is hilariously sad. So much effort invested in what was ultimately a destructive exercise. It's like a supremely shitty soup kitchen, or a non-profit donating fair trade chocolate to mistreated dogs.
I've sent it to a friend of mine who's an admin for French Wikipedia, she told me she couldn't do much about it herself but she's sharing it on the Wikimedia Discord server to see if someone can :. I just fixed up the Cleanup template not perfect, but better than it was.
Make edits to fix mistakes. Not much Wikipedia can do as they won't know the language either! It's going to take a lot of time though if there's thousands of them. And I really hope the guy the post is about won't reverse the genuine changes if he's an admin. Literally all they could do would by nuke everything he wrote, and at that point they've basically deleted the wiki.
The default would be to clean it up yourself. Which could be done, and if a couple thousand Scots-speakers volunteered would only take hours a person. I was in Dublin a few years ago to take the American foreign service exam at the embassy. This attracts Americans from around Europe. There was a young guy there with a heavy, but very bad, "accent" that was a mix of Irish, Scottish, and some form of English. I asked if he grew up in Ireland and said no, he grew up in America with American parents.
He had just lived in Scotland for a few years for Uni and "picked up the accent. It was hard to talk to him because his accent was so bad I couldn't take him seriously. So aye, it's nae gaid, but it's wiki min, edit it yirsel. Fowk'll be happy tae edit thon pages noo he's pit them up.
Also yir gonna hae the auldest problem in the buiks- wha's version oh Scots are ya hain? His jitters aboot goin fae the broons tae still game tae a hunner per cent Doric; bit naebdy spiks like at it a. Fits richt? The mad syncretic modern Scots that seems to kick about a lot on line appears to just jumble all variants together.
To be fair, this is a problem faced by many languages not just Scots. Standard Italian is a chimera made partly of Tuscan and partly Roman influences. The standard form of Irish an Caighdean is a made-up frankenstein dialect spoken by nobody natively until it was forced on people by the education system. And in Norway they never did decide which dialect should be the standard - they have two completely different standard languages, one used in the interior and northern areas and the other used on the west coast.
So I don't really know what the solution is for Scots. I don't think it's a good idea for people to just speak their local form of Scots because the most common form of Scots the Strathclyde one is also the one with arguably the greatest English influence, and so the only way to preserve the uniqueness of the language is to feed in words from conservative dialects such as Shetland, Doric, South Ayrshire and Dundonian which sound a bit strange or use heritage words which sound equally strange or just use hybrid Scots-English which is so similar to English it's probably easier to understand than some actual English dialects and can't be called a language.
There's no easy answer. Whether Scots is a distinct language or not is a battle ground that seems to me to be mostly selected by folk who oppose the idea of Scotland as a polity exactly because they can win the argument more easily. In my opinion as a mixed bag of various national and anti-national identities myself Scottish identity is already too cast in negative terms ie.
Ye say that, but the Anglosphere is coalescing into a cultural super-group at the moment. We share telly, films, even accents now have you heard kids these days? Half of them sound either American or English. Whilst I support the BLM stuff obviously , it did highlight that most of my peers knew more about the politics of black Americans than they did any working-class Scots, or anything about Scottish history or politics.
I'd argue that people should use the local dialect of Scots, they are all mutually intelligible for the most part and it doesn't take much for a person from Clydebank to work out what it means when an Aberdonian says "fit like".
I agree but then you get into the problems of what's "richt" for writing things down like here. Theses an auld joke about the Scots language society never really got of the ground because of arguments about how to spell the invitations..
To a lesser extent English has a similar question on Wikipedia - should standard British or American or other varieties of English spelling be used? And the rule is that people should try to keep articles consistent, so whoever wrote them first should decide - unless they pertain very specifically to the US or UK etc.
Not quite the same but a similar rule could apply. I am not usually in this subreddit, nor do I know much about Scots, but I do speak Pennsylvania Dutch and sometimes I read the Alemannish wikipedia because it's close enough. Because Alemannish is a group of dialects that collectively form a language, but have no agreed upon standard since they usually aren't a written language, the article usually is just written in whichever dialect the author knows.
It just works this way. I'd assume it would work the same in Scots. Well I have experience from Breton grandparents on one side were Breton, from the southern part of the westernmost tip of Brittany. They spoke Breton to each other and to the elderly folk in the area, but struggled to understand official Breton, since they spoke a dialect, and "official" Breton is a different one.
People trying to keep the language alive and expand the number of speakers had to make the decision to pick one dialect and lose the others, but It's still better than all of them dying out I suppose. They're largely written standards; spoken dialects are much more numerous and distinct.
There was a similar situation with Basque, a language spoken by roughly 1 million people in the Basque Country, Navarre and France.
No one knows exactly where Basque comes from, it apparently has no relation with Indo-European so the actual agreement is that it predates it.
Even at the beginning of the 20th century the language itself used to be different from one village to another, giving place to several regional dialects which were. I remember a close friend of mine had her grandma interviewed by researchers a few years ago. She was one of the last persons to speak the dialect of her town. With the beginning of the democracy in Spain -Basque was forbidden under the dictatorship of Franco- they created a unified version of the language so it could be taught academically, used to write books, etc.
Most of the dialects, even though they've been recorded and studied, are no longer used and therefore lost.
But in exchange the unified version of Basque has since been taught to new generations, promoting the numbers of people who speaks the language. I Know That You Know. I Know That You Kno…. Lyrics: Never Know Nav. Love Makes Things Happen Babyface. Other Side of the Rainbow Melba Moore. You'll Never Know Ariana Grande. Hey, Joan Midnight Students. Love Makes Things Happen Pebbles.
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